St Luke's Church Eccleshill, Bradford, UK

This dialogue was used to introduce St Matthew's Gospel at the start of "ordinary time" readings from the gospel, on 6th February 2005. The reading was Mt 5:13-20 (as referred to at the end of the script). There was a separate illustrated sermon.

Interview with St Matthew.

Introduction. We look at a gospel each year, and this year it's Matthew …

Minister: So this morning I've invited St Matthew to come and explain to us why he wrote his book and what's in it. Please could you come up to the front? Good Morning, Matthew.

Matthew: Good morning.

Minister: Now I'd like to ask you two things today: first about how you wrote your book, and second about why you wrote it. I understand that your gospel is first in our New Testament because you are the greatest and you were one of the original apostles of Jesus. You wrote first, and the other gospel writers interpreted what you wrote?

Matthew: Ah, no. That's very kind of you, but you've got it wrong. I didn't actually know Jesus personally myself in the flesh, although I did find out a lot about him, of course.

Minister:. But didn't you write down the sayings of Jesus? There is an early Christian writer called Papias who said what I've just said.

Matthew: Well, that wasn't me he was talking about, that was another Matthew. He may well have actually been Matthew the Apostle, although I'm afraid I never met him either. At any rate he went around with Jesus, and he wrote down quite a lot of things that Jesus did and said.

Minister: So what's this business about translating them?

Matthew: He wrote those things in Aramaic - that was what Jesus spoke. Aramaic wasn't any use for my book, because there were lots of Jews who lived all over the Roman Empire, and most of them didn't speak Aramaic, they spoke Greek. So I translated a lot of what he'd written, and put it in my Gospel. Haven't you got his book in your bibles?

Minister: No, I'm afraid it didn't survive - we mainly know about it because Luke used it in his gospel, and the differences in translations show us it must have been in Aramaic. It would have been very helpful if you'd just translated it - why didn't you do that?

Matthew: Because the Jews also needed to know what Jesus did as well as what he said. And besides that, a lot of his sayings are hard to understand unless you know what's going on at the time. So I wanted to write Jesus' life down properly.

Minister: So how did you know about Jesus' life, if you never met him?

Matthew: There was a chap called Mark who had written a book - Mark used to go around with Peter, and write down what Peter remembered. The problem was that Mark wanted to keep his book short, so he missed out quite a lot of the things Jesus said. So I kind of "mixed and matched" them in my book.

Minister: And did you have any other information about Jesus?

Matthew: Yes, I asked quite a lot of Christians who lived in Jerusalem for their memories of what Jesus had said and done, and they filled me in quite a lot. They were very good about who had seen Jesus when he rose again, and about how Jesus fulfilled the prophecies in the Old Testament.

Minister: And what about Jesus' birth?

Matthew: I was pleased about that bit! I met someone who knew Joseph, and he filled me in about the early parts of Jesus' life: when the wise men came and the family had to move to Egypt in a hurry.

Minister: So then you put it all together?

Matthew: Yes, I wrote it all down. We didn't have publishers in those days, but we made a lot of copies for Christians in different places. That was just after the time when the Romans destroyed the Jewish temple.

Minister: Yes - about the year 70 AD. Let's move on and you tell me why you wrote it all down?

Matthew: Well, there were quite a few reasons. Jesus had risen and ascended nearly 40 years ago, and there was a risk that Christians wouldn't know the details of his life, as the eye-witnesses were getting older. There was Mark's Gospel, which was a brilliant book but it didn't have everything in it. So I thought we needed another book.

Minister: Why not leave it to Luke and John?

Matthew: You must realize I didn't know them, and I didn't know they were thinking of writing books. But there's quite a lot in my book which isn't in theirs, because they didn't know the people I knew.

Minister: You mentioned the Jews several times. Why were you bothered about the Jews as well as the Christians?

Matthew: I'm a Jew myself - a Jew who has found the Messiah - so of course I care about my own people. I wanted the Jews to see how Jesus was the promised Messiah, and that's why I've put in quite a lot about how Jesus fulfils the Prophecies. And I wanted them to see how their leaders were leading them astray, and that's why I made it very clear that the Chief Priests were responsible for the crucifixion.

Minister: Yes. In our generation many people have criticised your gospel for being anti-Semitic.

Matthew: Well, I don't think that's fair - but I was trying to help Jews to look beyond their own ideas.

Minister: Is it right that you think Jesus was a kind of "New Moses"?

Matthew: Yes, I do. And other bible writers do as well - doesn't John say "the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ"?

Minister: Yes, point taken, but tell me more.

Matthew: Well, for instance, when you look at all the things Jesus said about God's Kingdom, and you divide them into topics, it fits rather neatly into five sermons, just like there are five books of Moses - so that's why I wrote it that way. And when Jesus was teaching, he quite often answered questions about the Jewish law, so I put them in my book.

Minister: So when St Paul writes "Christ is the end of the law" (Romans 10:4), meaning that Christ abolishes the Jewish Law, I take it you wouldn't agree with that?

Matthew: Actually, St Paul didn't write that, so you can't trap me. St Paul meant "Christ is the logical conclusion of the law", meaning that Christ is the fulfilment of the Old Testament, and that's what my book proves. Jesus doesn't abolish the law, he fulfils it.

Minister: Very clever. Let me finish with this question. What's the most important thing you think Christians should do to follow Jesus?

Matthew: Well, it's in your bible reading this morning. Jesus is the light of the world, and his followers have to be light. They have to be salt to stop the world going rotten, and they do that by following God's commandments. And there's a bit that I wrote right at the end of my gospel they need to remember: Jesus says he'll be with them always, to the close of the age.

Minister: Thank you very much, Matthew.

John Hartley